World Against War – join the global demonstration Five years after the invasion of Iraq the world has become a much more dangerous place. Estimates suggest as many as one million have died violent deaths as a result of the occupation of Iraq. The country's infrastructure and civil society are in shreds. Brown has promised British withdrawals but there are still 5,000 British soldiers there.

Despite talk of a change of attitude to Bush's wars, Brown is sending more troops to Afghanistan. This hidden war is fast becoming a disaster mirroring Iraq. The number of dead in Afghanistan runs in to tens of thousands, according to Oxfam there are four times more bombing raids there than in Iraq, and the result of this devastation is that the Taliban is growing.

Meanwhile instability is spreading around the world. The turmoil in Pakistan is partly caused by the ‘war on terror’ and it will cause more chaos in Afghanistan.

Despite clear evidence that Iran is nowhere near developing nuclear weapons, Bush is continuing to ramp up pressure against the regime there, risking war at any time.

The Stop the War Coalition has joined with the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament and the British Muslim Initiative in calling a demonstration to mark the fifth anniversary of the invasion of Iraq in London on Saturday March 15. It will be part of a global day of protest against Bush's wars with marches around the world from Washington to Beirut, from Sidney to Seoul.

We aim to show our rulers that the overwhelming majority here and around the world want to see an end to these immoral, irresponsible and frightening wars.

Please join us, tell your friends, workmates and neighbours and make sure that on Saturday March 15 George Bush and Gordon Brown cannot ignore the factthat the world is against their wars.anyone thinking of going?

i for one would like to see whether the media/government manage once again to ignore the thousands and thousands of angry protesters, like they did so effectively last time with the second iraq march.

i kid you not, there was about two inches of a columns-worth of write up in the times. and apparently there were 2000 people. which is weird because i couldn't actually see where the lines of people ended when we were waiting by hyde park...they went on all the way down the walkway in the park. hyde park isn't exactly small...and i was there fairly early, people were still arriving when we started! hmm...strange.

there was a photo in the times however, of my friend who streaked :D they missed me walking a bit behind her carrying her clothes. obviously i'm not quite so photogenic. but seriously, if they hadn't had that photo of alice i doubt the march would've even made the papers.

so i think i'll be there, dutifully getting ignored like the rest of the disillusioned activists.

So whereabouts is this? Is there a website? I'd like to go but knowing me I'd end up in the wrong place ;)

sorry, it's in london.

that's the stop the war coalition website..
http://www.stopwar.org.uk/

i for one would like to see whether the media/government manage once again to ignore the thousands and thousands of angry protesters, like they did so effectively last time with the second iraq march.



Just wait and see....I really dont think any angry protester can actually make a difference.
But good luck.

I'll try to come along to this. The Hipforums crew used to go down to all the demos in London during the Afghan war and in the build up to the Iraq war. We'd all meet up and march together and bring Hipforums against the war signs. I don't honestly believe there will be a war against Iran, but I do feel it is important to keep the movement going and keep pressure on the government....

I'll try to come along to this. The Hipforums crew used to go down to all the demos in London during the Afghan war and in the build up to the Iraq war. We'd all meet up and march together and bring Hipforums against the war signs. I don't honestly believe there will be a war against Iran, but I do feel it is important to keep the movement going and keep pressure on the government....

And I suppose the government really cares about the Hipforums crew protesting ?

What was the point of that sarcky comment, Piaf? I was quite clearly referring to the wider national movement, which has waned considerably since its peak in early 2003 when there was real pressure on the government to at least acknowledge the trend in public opinion....

What was the point of that sarcky comment, Piaf? I was quite clearly referring to the wider national movement, which has waned considerably since its peak in early 2003 when there was real pressure on the government to at least acknowledge the trend in public opinion....

Umm....There really wasnt a point.
Sorry, I do tend to post stupid comments sometimes...Always, actually.
I really dont know much about politics and I dont care much.
But honestly, its a great thing if you're trying to make a difference. I'd join you but I am not in London.

and the fact is, the million-person march in Feb 2003 did make a difference: it was only after the mass protests that Blair allowed a debate in Parliament on whether we should go to war. Too bad the parliamentarians blew it ...

Moreover, I think, if the government hadn't been given such a rough ride by the public over the Iraq war, an Iran war now would be much more likely. During the Vietnam war it was the levels of resistance both at home and in the field that made it so difficult for the Americans to contine indefinitely. In this case, between the anti-war movement and the Iraqi resistance, the power of the British and American governments to pursue military 'solutions' has been severely curtailed....

Actualy you know I think they already understand that thousands of people are against war in principle, after all it is already a long tradition in the British Isles and every politician will be aware of the anti-war movement/CND, and as to the BMI well they should organise their own seperate event in all honesty.

The question is whether you believe that the powers that be actualy enjoy ordering the deaths of thousands or whether they believe they are trying to act in best faith, well perhaps not the only question maybe after all spring is in the air. :)

I think Blair honestly believes he acted in good faith, but good faith is no retrospective defence against bad decisions....

I think Blair honestly believes he acted in good faith, but good faith is no retrospective defence against bad decisions....
But then there's no way to know your decisions were good or bad till after the fact..
Oh crap I just defended Blair, I feel so dirty.. but anything to get a good debate going!

Of course he thought it was the right thing to do, but it doesn't follow that everyone who thinks they are doing the right thing cannot be held to account for making the wrong decision in good faith. This outcome was entirely predictable back in 2003, and if you start a war against a country you will cause the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people - that's what happens. For whatever deluded reasons they might have thought it was the best thing to do but they are nonetheless criminally negligent for making such a terrible mistake. Public opinion is easily forgotten and it's important to keep reminding the government of their catastrophically poor judgement as a result of which hundreds are still dying every week. Not in my name...

Of course he thought it was the right thing to do, but it doesn't follow that everyone who thinks they are doing the right thing cannot be held to account for making the wrong decision in good faith. This outcome was entirely predictable back in 2003, and if you start a war against a country you will cause the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people - that's what happens. For whatever deluded reasons they might have thought it was the best thing to do but they are nonetheless criminally negligent for making such a terrible mistake. Public opinion is easily forgotten and it's important to keep reminding the government of their catastrophically poor judgement as a result of which hundreds are still dying every week. Not in my name...Precisely

I wish i could make it

I don't suggest good faith negates responsibility.

Public opinion is the one that forgets, not the government they will receive a lot more information about the events than you or I will ever see on news at ten. Seems to me the anti-war lobby are just on another recruitment drive, no objections to that really other than basing ones anti-war opinion on hate of individuals I find a trifle disquieting.

Seems to me the anti-war lobby are just on another recruitment drive, no objections to that really other than basing ones anti-war opinion on hate of individuals I find a trifle disquieting.
We have marched every year for the past five years, the point is to let them know we haven't forgotten... what "hatred of individuals" are you referring to?:confused: I can't see any element of that in any of the publicity, and it would seem to be a complete misreading of what the whole thing is about...

http://www.areweatwarwithiran.com/

Actualy you know I think they already understand that thousands of people are against war in principle, after all it is already a long tradition in the British Isles and every politician will be aware of the anti-war movement/CND, ...Yes, there have always been thousands of people against war in principle, but millions of people were against the Iraq war and would be opposed to intervention in Iran. Such as my parents' generation for instance, who lived through World War II and didn't need any lessons in patriotism from Blair and his claque.

I don't suggest good faith negates responsibility.

Public opinion is the one that forgets, not the government they will receive a lot more information about the events than you or I will ever see on news at ten. Seems to me the anti-war lobby are just on another recruitment drive, no objections to that really other than basing ones anti-war opinion on hate of individuals I find a trifle disquieting.I disliked many of Blair's policies, but my opposition to the war is not based on any hatred of the man, rather my own reasoned judgement of the situation. And yes, the government will receive much more information than the public. But for it all, it was still spectacularly wrong about weapons of mass destruction when we, the uninformed, predicted it was all a sham from the start....

the government will receive much more information than the public. But for it all, it was still spectacularly wrong about weapons of mass destruction when we, the uninformed, predicted it was all a sham from the start....On this one issue anyone who wanted to had access to Hans Blix and Mohammed El-Baradei's exceedingly detailed reports on Iraq's capabilities to the UN. You could download all their reports with a click or two and peruse them at your leisure. When the government freely published its own most exaggerated claims for the existence of Iraq's weapons programs, anyone who read them sensitively could tell that there simply was no credible threat. In the run up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq the public were given access to more 'sensitive' intelligence information than ever before. Since it was so easy to see past the blatant political manipulation of the available facts, I doubt a government will ever choose to be so open again...

The world is already a more dangerous place. The world is cursed. Yeh, I might come to the march, but from previous experience, forty thousand protesters doesn't raise any labour eye brows. Time to vote for a party who cares about british security.

who's going to go to this?