Log in

View Full Version : Bush


txbarefooter
05-04-2007, 02:07 AM
I got this from google news. just typical of bush, equality for all, IF you're conservative, republican, christian and straight. anyhoo, there is legislation passing through that WOULD extend hate crime catagory based on orientation. he is one sorry assed president.

WASHINGTON -- The House voted Thursday to expand federal hate crime categories to include violent attacks against gays and people targeted because of gender, acting just hours after the White House threatened a veto.
The legislation, passed 237-180, also would make it easier for federal law enforcement to take part in or assist local prosecutions involving bias-motivated attacks. Similar legislation is also moving through the Senate, setting the stage for a possible veto showdown with President Bush.

"This is an important vote of conscience, of a statement of what America is, a society that understands that we accept differences," said House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/h000874/), D-Md.

Rep. Barney Frank (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/f000339/), D-Mass., the only openly gay man in the House, presided over the chamber as the final vote was taken.

The vote came after fierce lobbying from opposite sides by civil rights groups, who have been pushing for years for added protections against hate crimes, and social conservatives, who say the bill threatens the right to express moral opposition to homosexuality and singles out groups of citizens for special protection.

The White House said state and local criminal laws already cover the new crimes defined under the bill and there was "no persuasive demonstration of any need to federalize such a potentially large range of violent crime enforcement."

It also noted that the bill leaves other classes, such as the elderly, the military and police officers, without similar special status.

"Our criminal justice system has been built on the ideal of equal justice for all," said Rep. Lamar Smith (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/s000583/) of Texas, top Republican on the Judiciary Committee. "Under this bill justice will no longer be equal, but depend on the race, sex, sexual orientation, disability or status of the victim."

Republicans, in a parliamentary move that would have effectively killed the bill, tried to add seniors and the military to those qualifying for hate crimes protection. It was defeated on a mainly party-line vote.

Hate crimes under current federal law apply to acts of violence against individuals on the basis of race, religion, color, or national origin. Federal prosecutors have jurisdiction only if the victim is engaged in a specific federally protected activity such as voting.

The House bill would extend the hate crimes category to include sexual orientation, gender, gender identity or disability and give federal authorities greater leeway to participate in hate crime investigations. It would approve $10 million over the next two years to help local law enforcement officials cover the cost of hate crime prosecutions.

Federal investigators could step in if local authorities were unwilling or unable to act. The Human Rights Campaign, the country's largest gay rights group, said this federal intervention could have made a difference in the case of Brandon Teena, the young Nebraska transsexual depicted in the movie "Boys Don't Cry" who was raped after two friends discovered that he was biologically female and then murdered after local police did not arrest those responsible.

But Dr. James C. Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family, warned that the true intent of the bill was "to muzzle people of faith who dare to express their moral and biblical concerns about homosexuality." If you read the Bible in a certain way, he told his broadcast listeners, "you may be guilty of committing a 'thought crime.'"

"It does not impinge on public speech or writing in any way," countered Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/c000714/), D-Mich., pointing out that the bill reaffirms First Amendment and free speech rights.

Conyers said in a statement that state and local authorities will continue to prosecute the overwhelming majority of such cases and the bill requires the attorney general or another high-ranking Justice Department official to approve any federal prosecutions.

The legislation restates already-enacted penalties. Those using guns to commit crimes defined under the bill face prison terms of up to 10 years. Crimes involving kidnapping or sexual assault or resulting in death can bring life terms.

The Senate bill, sponsored by Sen. Edward Kennedy (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/k000105/), D-Mass., is named for Matthew Shepard, the gay college student who died after he was beaten and tied to a fence in Wyoming in 1998. His mother Judy, who heads a foundation in her son's name and has been a leading advocate of the legislation, addressed House Democrats before the vote to ask for their backing.

The Judiciary Committee cited FBI figures that there have been more than 113,000 hate crimes since 1991, including 7,163 in 1995. It said that racially motivated bias accounted for 55 percent of those incidents, religious bias for 17 percent, sexual orientation bias for 14 percent and ethnicity bias for 14 percent.

___

The bill is H.R. 1592

Share the Warmth
05-04-2007, 03:44 AM
who say the bill threatens the right to express moral opposition to homosexualityI could not believe this quote. The right to express moral opposition to homosexuality? Are you kidding me? That's like the right to express moral opposition to women or blacks! Gays cannot help their orientation, nor should they have to.

The main opposition to homosexuality in this country is a fucking work of literature. Such small, small minds in power today. Their time will soon be done though. This is the information age, with grade schoolers growing up with the web, and the internet will take this country in a progressive direction in the long run, I believe it!

Envy
05-04-2007, 04:26 AM
Bush is really really really getting on my nerves as of lately.

That is all I have to say about this... otherwise I'd get into a long rant which nobody would read. XD

stonedmonkiwana
05-04-2007, 04:35 AM
if this is actually true...............

*Andy*
05-04-2007, 05:41 AM
Stupid cunt. Those polls were rigged - people didn't actually vote for the asshole. He's just a puppet so there's no point getting angry at him.

happyonehit420
05-04-2007, 05:54 AM
It's not just Bush and his minions in power that have the influence over this stuff. There's a vast majority of Americans opposed to gays, and with christian, hardcore republicans so excitedly pushing their "moral" cause, we still have a ways to go before shit like this will pass. It's the main populations we need to focus on, not just those in charge. It's like that old addage, majority wins.

such faith brings such hatred......i'm pretty sure jesus didn't kill any gays he knew......i don't really think that was the message he was exactly trying to spread here.....

LJDV
05-04-2007, 08:12 PM
This makes me fume. Ignorance is ridiculous and it's lengths are even more so.

*Andy*
05-04-2007, 08:27 PM
There's a vast majority of Americans opposed to gays, and with christian, hardcore republicans so excitedly pushing their "moral" cause..."
"Christian, hardcore republicans"? I think you should change that to "Fundementalist "Christian", hardcore republicans" because none of those people are true Christians.

happyonehit420
05-07-2007, 07:55 PM
^^agreed. thank you. consider it revised.

txbarefooter
05-09-2007, 02:29 AM
or just one word evangelicals ** shivers **

on a side note: I don't see any difference in attitude between evagelicals and the Taliban both are extreemist in their viewpoints of those that don't believe like they do and both are just as dangerous.

amp7325
05-09-2007, 04:31 AM
Ughh, I don't get it.

I mean, I understand how someone can be "opposed" to gays.

But I don't understand how someone can basically state that, "we're not opposed to gays, but we don't want to give them equal protection from hate crimes." I cannot fathom how they can justifiably deny the protection from hate crimes. It is beyond me how they can consider themselves to be morally just.

dewaholic
05-09-2007, 04:54 AM
I'm not gay, but I am more like a gay supporter. If people want or need to be with a person of the same sex, so be it. Fuck the president.

simkin
05-09-2007, 06:11 AM
or just one word evangelicals ** shivers **

on a side note: I don't see any difference in attitude between evagelicals and the Taliban both are extreemist in their viewpoints of those that don't believe like they do and both are just as dangerous.It's an overgeneralization to make this sort of statement about evangelical Christians. For example, Dr. Mel White is an evangelical Christian, and a pastor to boot. He's also a gay man living in a committed relationship, founded Soulforce Inc., was awarded the ACLU's National civil liberties award and continues to struggle for gay rights in the United States.

While I understand the frustration many people feel towards Christianity due to the church's checkered past and the actions of individuals such as Pat Robertson or organizations such as Focus On the Family, if the GLBT community is to overcome the hatred of such individuals we must be ever vigilant not to succumb to such hatred ourselves.

On that note, I'd be very appreciative if the government would stop trying to get into my bedroom and start taking greater steps to defend my rights as a gay American.

SelfControl
05-09-2007, 08:37 AM
Have to say:

"Under this bill justice will no longer be equal, but depend on the race, sex, sexual orientation, disability or status of the victim."

I can't really disagree with this. Hate-crime legislation is a bad thing in itself. I'm not in favour of leaving gays out of it if we have to have it, but on the other hand, introducing further hate-crime legislation in the name of equality would make it a lot harder to reverse later.

I'm sure plenty of people will disagree on that.

Isil
05-09-2007, 08:23 PM
"...who say the bill threatens the right to express moral opposition to homosexuality..."

Wowza o.O

The bill isnt threatening anyones right to be against homosexuality. Its attempting to abolish murders and violent acts against gays.

"...and singles out groups of citizens for special protection."

Yet they dont classify laws which protect people based on race as "singling out groups for special protection" o.o

Some people are quite contradictory.

a-dam
05-10-2007, 01:37 AM
While I understand the frustration many people feel towards Christianity due to the church's checkered past and the actions of individuals such as Pat Robertson or organizations such as Focus On the Family, if the GLBT community is to overcome the hatred of such individuals we must be ever vigilant not to succumb to such hatred ourselves.Please also know that there are a number of churches and religious organizations that support our fight against discrimination. I am very blessed and privileged to belong to a church that is part of a fairly conservative denomination but embraces the gay rights movement as the kind of peace and justice issue that Christ supported. To truly follow Christ to some means reaching out to those who have been marginalized and disenfranchised and showing God's love to them, just as Jesus did.

SelfControl
05-10-2007, 01:42 AM
Yet they dont classify laws which protect people based on race as "singling out groups for special protection" o.o


I guess they figured they already lost that battle.

My guess is we're getting a mixed argument combining people who disagree with homosexuals and people who disagree with hate-crime laws generally.

simkin
05-10-2007, 05:07 AM
Please also know that there are a number of churches and religious organizations that support our fight against discrimination. I am very blessed and privileged to belong to a church that is part of a fairly conservative denomination but embraces the gay rights movement as the kind of peace and justice issue that Christ supported. To truly follow Christ to some means reaching out to those who have been marginalized and disenfranchised and showing God's love to them, just as Jesus did.QED

Glen_Quagmire
05-10-2007, 06:51 AM
Absolutes are wrong in any way. They are sins in my opinion. I think anyone who follows a party blindly is a total idiot. Thats why Im moderate.

Rigamarole
05-10-2007, 06:59 AM
I could not believe this quote. The right to express moral opposition to homosexuality? Are you kidding me? That's like the right to express moral opposition to women or blacks!
... which is a right you have in America. Remember the whole freedom of speech/expression thing? It's like the old quote about "I may not like what they have to say, but I will fight to the death to defend their right to say it." Once you start telling people what they can and can't oppose, you become the fascist.

Dehnus
05-10-2007, 10:52 AM
or just one word evangelicals ** shivers **

on a side note: I don't see any difference in attitude between evagelicals and the Taliban both are extreemist in their viewpoints of those that don't believe like they do and both are just as dangerous.The difference is Evangelicals have a better PR department if you get what I mean :D. When on TV they know to twist and turn thier msg in such a way that some ppl will agree with them even on points of view they don't really agree with. While the Taliban.... well.... Do they even have PR outside of websites and kids wanting to act all tough on the net ?

Evangelicals are scary man they are starting to resemble the Roman Catholic Church in the middle ages. Far to much power in thier hands (just like with the Roman Catholic church back then). Also just like the Roman Catholic church all of a sudden got Europe to think the world was flat, these ppl get ppl to beleive the world is only 6000 years old at most ;) and other silly things :D.

@Simkin And yes some Evangelicals are "gay" but I think they are very rare and more used by the rest as a discusion stopper that they hate gay ppl. Infact most Evangelicals will clearly tell you that the only way a gay man can get to heaven is not act on his desires to be with a man or have sex with this man. Most even go further and just say it can be cured and is a choice. You and I both can't deny how ppl like jerry Fallwell, or as I like to call him Geri Fallwell: Biblespice, thinks about gay ppl and how most of those big time Evangelical organisations think. The most influential ones out there are anti gay rights. The ones that are pro have pretty much no power compared to the "big boys".

But I did chuckle at one point hehe :""you may be guilty of committing a 'thought crime.'"?. hehe Does that even exist? are those people really think god is constantly monitoring thier thoughts and keeping a naughty and Nice list ;). :"Ooooh thinking sinfull thoughts about the boy next door.... veerryyy naughty! Boy next door not answering these thoughts with advances of himself... EQUALLY NAUGHTY!" ( I love futurama LOL)

knotdirty
05-11-2007, 05:21 AM
Karma.


That's the only thing that I can say about Bush.

On topic; What...the...hell..how can they even justify this? How does one group of people deserve less protection or fewer rights than another?

Expressing moral opposition is one thing...hate crimes are completely different.
Like..."let's see. Gays: You can't get married, you can't fight for your country..and OH YEAH, it's okay if people commit hate crimes against you."

Stand up for your rights, babies. Just keep it up...keep your heads up.

SelfControl
05-12-2007, 12:12 AM
... which is a right you have in America. Remember the whole freedom of speech/expression thing? It's like the old quote about "I may not like what they have to say, but I will fight to the death to defend their right to say it." Once you start telling people what they can and can't oppose, you become the fascist.

True, you have the right to say what you like. But freedom of speech does not equal immunity from criticism.

Isil
05-12-2007, 12:30 AM
Mehhh...

The U.S. Constitution, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and basic morality in general are all being violated here o.o

Those who violate these things (the president and such...) are contradicting themselves.

- Its not very good to pick and choose whose rights you support, and whose you dont. You either support the rights of all beings, or no beings at all.
- Our presidents swear to uphold the Constitution and all its facets. Bush isnt doing that at all...
- They've attempted to ammend the Constitution, making same-sex marriage illegal. Why is that they think they can restrict freedom in the "land of the free".

Again, I say meh :o

SelfControl
05-12-2007, 12:33 AM
I'm not sure of the minutiae of it, but apparently a lot of people argue that hate crime law is unconstitutional.

You know, I'm quite glad we don't have a constitution. Considering what it is, it doesn't seem to make anyone's life any easier.

Night_Owl49
05-12-2007, 12:50 AM
Of course he's going to veto it. He's conservative to the tee.

Shaman420
05-12-2007, 07:28 AM
I will argue that the hate crime bill is unconstitutional and I'll start out by saying I don't hate myself! ;) It is unconstitutional because it violates the 10th ammendment's limitations on federal power and it violates the first ammendment in regards to freedom of speech. The U.S. government should be focusing on cutting down on violent crimes not making thoughts illegal. If you are a bigot, prejudice or a rascist than you have to deal with yourself but I strongly believe it is not the federal governments job to judge what you can or cant think. Much in the same way that it is not their job to judge if two men or two women want to get married. Essentially all hate crime legislation does is make it illegal to think hateful thoughts or say hateful things while commiting a crime... if we seperate the fact that these crimes are commited towards minorities we can easily see that any violent crime is a hate crime.

SelfControl
05-12-2007, 09:05 AM
Also, pretty much all murder and violence is committed out of hatred for the victim. If you hate them because they're gay or black, you get a tougher sentence than if you hate them because you're just a bit of a jerk, or because they cheated on you. I guess it's what they call "positive discrimination".

sun_heart_girl
05-13-2007, 08:56 AM
just typical of bush, equality for all, IF you're conservative, republican, christian and straight.
Ah, but remember my friend - all people are equal, but some are more equal than others...

Peacey
05-15-2007, 03:09 AM
i dont get it

txbarefooter
05-17-2007, 03:12 AM
what is it you don't get ?

sun_heart_girl
06-15-2007, 06:29 PM
i dont get it
If you're referring to my post, it's from Animal Farm. If you're referring to the overall topic, then I don't think anyone does.

lunarlight555
06-17-2007, 01:47 AM
I can't believe this! So typical of the American right :(

Canada is looking like a better place to move to with each passing day :)

Humanman
06-17-2007, 03:33 AM
I really dont believe in hate crimes for specific groups of people all murder is committed out of hate. If a white man kills a black man because he is black how is it different from killing him because he felt like it the man is still dead. But i believe if we are gonna give minorities and other groups of people this treatment we ought to give it to all people

*~nathan~*
06-17-2007, 08:53 AM
Its about time we IMPEACH BUSH!